As they decided to set events away from Britannia, there are not that many continuity mistakes in Ultima VIII. However, you’ll still find more than enough inaccuracies in foreign Pagan as a nitpicker, because the actually good, Ultima-ish plot was apparently not finished. A pity. Yet it’s not even half as bad as in Ultima IX: Ultima VIII sheds light on your dark side and forces you to do evil deeds; an aspect of your character that Ultima IX completely ignores. The Guardian’s voice creates a thrilling atmosphere. In Ultima IX, the speech is boring, emotionless, and unprofessional. Another important thing to note is that Ultima VIII plays on a strange new world with foreign locations and characters, whereas Ultima IX rehashes old stories like the False Prophet affair in a miserable way. At the end of the day, Pagan makes much a better impression than Ascension.

Ignorance of PredecessorsEdit

Guardian's PalaceEdit

Mors Gotha mentioned the Guardians Palace in Pagan at the end of Underworld II. Yet there’s no sign of such a place anywhere in Ultima VIII.[1]


In Serpent Isle, the Forest Master Morghrim seemed to be a druid, and was explicitly said to be native from Pagan. However, this leads to a lot of problems.

First he must be very old then, and/or time passed much more quickly between Ultima VII Part 2 and Ultima VII. He said he had fled from his world’s destruction but he didn’t say anything about when it had happened. Of course, since he was an outworlder, he might have been “ageless”, but we had no explanation about how long he had been around.

Second, he knew of the Guardian’s duplicity so he must have been a Zealan priest, for the bulk of the Zealans cared only for the Pagan’s worship of the elements. His powers and artifacts were related to nature, thus were very “druid-like”. This presents a big problem in Ultima VIII, when we are told that Zealans were following only the Ancient Ones. Of course, druids could have existed but we have no notes about them even in Mythran’s extensive library. (Personally, I am sure Morghrim was originally meant to be mentioned in Ultima VIII, i.e. before the game was rushed by EA. I’m also sure they would have explained some of these flaws.)[2]

Blackrock Serpent StoneEdit

In Underworld II, you obtained a Blackrock Serpent from the Goblins at the sewers. They mentioned that they had got it from a stranger who had come to their camp and said only one word: “Pagan”. How did he arrive there, and why did he have the Serpent stone?

Thanks for cutting 1/2 of Ultima VIII, EA. By the way, do you notice the big number of references to future games in Ultima VII, Serpent Isle, and Underworld II? Clearly proofs that the Guardian trilogy was meant to be a continuous storyline from the beginning.[3]


Mordra in fact appeared in Ultima VII in Skara Brae! Why doesn’t the Avatar tell Vardion? [4]

Hierophant GearEdit

An obvious nitpick: What happened to all the Hierophant stuff the Avatar was wearing at the end of Serpent Isle? [5]

Technical ShortcomingsEdit

Obsidian ForestEdit

Why can’t you teleport out of the obsidian fortress? (I thought only Blackrock is a good magic blocker.)[4]

Breath of Wind Conversation OptionsEdit

On Argentrock Isle, after learning of the Breath of Wind from Stratos, the Avatar will immediately get conversation options for trying to get the Breath of Wind. However, at this point in the game, the Avatar hasn’t found out yet that the fragments of the Blackrock Obelisk must be used to defeat the Titans and gain their powers, which leaves the player in the dark as to why the Avatar wants the Breath of Wind.[6]

Beren's Weird ConversationEdit

When you’re crossing the River of Fire for the first time, Beren will appear and warn you not to offend the Sorcerers. However, his remark is phrased as though it came at the end of a long conversation, and he seems completely nonplussed that you’re braving fiercest dangers in order to reach the Sorceror’s Enclave, as though you’d already explained your reasons behind this all. (You can only have the full conversation if you angered Beren before and didn’t apoligize, or if you never talked to him.)[6]

Pagan MapEdit

Why are there Britannian runes on the cloth map of Pagan?[4]

Earth and Fire MagicEdit

Isn’t is most strange that Earth and Fire magic still works even after the Avatar has stolen the respective blackrock items?[4]

Breath of Air or Breath of WindEdit

There is a Blackrock fragment for each element. The one related to air is called the “Breath of Wind” by Stratos, the Air Titan, however everyone else refers to it as the “Breath of Air”.[7]

No Missile WeaponsEdit

In Pagan, things are even worse than in Britannia: There are no missile weapons at all![7]

Hydros' TempleEdit

The Zealan gods say Hydros’ temple at Carthax Lake is below the surface. But that’s not possible: 1. The lake is marked on the map, so it must be above the surface. 2. When Hydros is free, there is rain and fog at Carthax Lake, too. That’s only possible on the surface.[4]

Truth SpellEdit

Why doesn’t the spell to get the truth out of someone work with everyone? It would sure come handy with Vardion or Bane.[4]

Mordea's LightningEdit

When they almost execute Devon, the Avatar is struck by a lightning of Mordea. Why isn’t he dead? Such a lightning always kills a human. The only reason is probably: “Because of the plot!” Even worse: Darion and Shaana survive, too. Why? That’s not very credible, the more so because the guards are killed by the lightning.[4]

General ProblemsEdit

Obelisk TipEdit

How did the Obelisk Tip get into the possession of Kumash-Gor? He died centuries before the temple was destroyed. How can it be in his possession now? After all, the temple is deep beneath the surface, forgotten long since. Did the Zealans hide it there?[4]

Vengeance BayEdit

Where is Vengeance Bay? It is mentioned in the manual, and it says it’s a great destination for pilgrims.[4]

Teleporter PlatformsEdit

Where do the impressive teleporter platforms actually come from?[4]

Test of LithosEdit

If there is really just one jewel of passage in the test of Lithos (at least you see only one), then the next candidate will automatically fail.[4]

Vividos' TeachingsEdit

After the Ceremony of Eternity, Vividos will tell you that, in time, he will teach you other Necromantic spells once you’ve been tested in the Catacombs and the Hall of the Mountain King. However, he never does, that sneak! [6]

Tear of the SeasEdit

According to the book “The Destruction of the Temple”, the Tear of the Seas is hidden in an underwater city. Later on in the game, however, Devon reveals that he just happened to find the Tear of the Seas while out fishing, and just happened to decide an ordinary-looking rock was important enough for him to keep it for all these years. If that’s not a sign of an unfinished plot thread, I don’t know what is... [6]

Birthplace of MoriensEdit

Your Necromantic pilgrimage is to find the Birthplace of Moriens, where, according to Vividos, you will see an incredible vision. However, you never see anything special; in the “Birthplace of Moriens” you merely find an entrance to an ancient Zealan Temple. [6]

Skull of QuakesEdit

What is the Skull of Quakes? In the course of Ultima VIII, you will find two letters, correspondence between Mordea and one “Lieutenant Vittek”, talking about how the Skull of Quakes has mysteriously gone missing from its resting place in the Upper Catacombs. Eventually, you will find the Skull of Quakes in a trapped chest in the Temple of the Ancient Ones. Placing it on a glowing red spot in the Upper Catacombs will cause the screen to rumble, go black, then fade back in with a new passage opened up. This passage leads to a room with a recall pad and absolutely nothing else. This brings up a number of questions: 1. What is the Skull of Quakes? 2. What is this tiny room? 3. Who stole the Skull of Quakes and why, especially when they just dumped it in a trapped chest in somewhere incredibly out of the way? 4. Why are Mordea and this Vittek so desperate to get the Skull of Quakes back?[6]

Ritual of FireEdit

In the whole Daemon’s Crag/Sorceror’s Enclave sequence, Malchir talks of how important it is that he conducts the Ritual of Flame. When he does so, we see that it is so that he can ask Pyros about a mythical “great fire in the sky” (the sun). Pyros is either ignorant of this or pretends to be. However, right after the Ritual of Flame, the Avatar heads off to kill Malchir and loot his corpse; what Malchir was trying to learn of the sun is never explained nor even mentioned ever again in the game. Did Malchir want to have the sunlight back? Then he most certainly didn’t ask Pyros the first time.[6]

Sorcerer's Enclave After Freeing HydrosEdit

After you free Hydros, Devon tells the Avatar to go to the Sorceror’s Enclave, since they might have a way of stopping her. However, there is absolutely no dialogue at all regarding any of the Sorcerers that even mentions that Hydros is free, much less the fact that you’re here to find a way to stop her.[6]

Wisps in Pagan?Edit

There is a book in Tenebrae that mentions strange balls of glowing light that were seen on the Plateau, where Mythran lives. Makes you wonder if Wisps were originally going to appear in Ultima VIII.[6]

Uninvited GuestEdit

Why is a mundane stranger like the Avatar allowed to enter the Palace of the Tempest?[4]

Is Mordra a Titan?Edit

Mythram says that you can only leave Pagan if you control the powers of the Titans... Makes you wonder how Mordra could leave Pagan.[3]

Black GateEdit

We know that the Guardian built the Blackrock obelisk to have a Black Gate allowing him to enter the world. However, he destroyed it as soon as he was through. How could he then leave it again?[4]

Hydros Never Kills DevonEdit

After you free her, Hydros tells you she will kill Devon, and that you better go and try to save him. Unfortunately, she never tries to kill him. An unfinished strand of the plot.[4]

Titans and the GuardianEdit

Isn’t it strange how little information we get about the connection between the Titans and the Guardian in Ultima VIII? It’s mostly Ascension’s fault (see original Ultima IX), of course, but still.[4]

Gwillim the BraveEdit

In the valley north of Tenebrae, there’s a Torax herdsman called Gwillim. When you initiate a conversation with him, he will mention the plateau, and that he’s been there once or twice, calling it quite a beautiful place. Perhaps this is too nitpicky or exaggerating, but doesn’t it strike you as mighty strange that a simple Torax herdsman would brave the caverns that lead up to the plateau, which are filled with ghouls and other diabolical traps (like primed death disks, trapped chests, and a subterranean lake with a Minion of the Lurker in it) as well as a lever puzzle, just to view the scenery of the plateau? In addition, Gwillim also just happens to neglect to mention that the way to the plateau is filled with ghouls. Instead, he makes it sound as if it’s as easy as a casual stroll, that sneak![8]

How Much is Mythram Holding Back?Edit

If Mythram knows about Britannia and Mordra, then why you can’t ask him about it? Also, since he knows about Mordra, he should know about another way to leave Pagan (the one Mordra used).[3]

Salkind's BookEdit

You can read Salkind’s book with the accusations of Bentic and Devon as much as you like, but you’ll just not get a dialogue about it with imprisoned Devon.[4]

Tenebrae Civil ServiceEdit

You have to wonder why the Tempests of Tenebrae never allowed the Theurgists into civil service. With their “find out the truth” spell, they’d be better than all torture instruments.[4]

Brogdan's Helpful Guide to MushroomsEdit

In either the Tenebraen Library or Salkind’s ornate mansion, there’s a book called “Brogdan’s Helpful Guide to Mushrooms”´. In one of his statements, he describes the humble mushroom as one such plant that has survived the disaster when the sun disappeared. Mushrooms aren’t plants, they’re fungi.[8]

Unfinished AreaEdit

This is not so much a nitpick as it is indicative of Pagan’s incompleteness. To the west of Tenebrae, there is a small stream with a gentle waterfall pouring into it. This would appear to be the scene of a burial or death of some sort, as there is at least one ghoul patrolling. Also, there are several scarce reagents on either side of the stream. Now, the waterfall is being fed from a cave entrance. If you approach the ledge and manage to gain purchase, you actually enter a new cavern.

Within, there is a lone skeleton warrior, and further down a twisting passage, a pair of mandrills buzzing around a chest. At the end of the passage, there are some bones. Checking the inventory, you’ll find some explosives, reagents, and curiously enough, an item you don’t see anywhere else in the game. It is a blue vial of some kind, but when you double-click on it, it has no purpose. You have to wonder, is this frazzled plot thread another victim of the impetuousness of EA? Was the blue vial supposed to have a purpose of some kind? Judging by the cavern itself, it looks to be incomplete as well.[8]

Arranged Marriage? Or not?Edit

When speaking with Darion, the captain of the Guard, dialogue appears for the Avatar to express his desire to wed Jenna, the Captain's Daughter. However, no such dialogue appears for Jenna, beyond some mild flirtation that never goes anywhere. Was this more unfinished business? Shame on EA for denying the Avatar time to find romance!

References and original contributors to Hacki's pageEdit

  1. Originally Submitted by Time Lord
  2. Originally Submitted by Sir Klaus Dragon
  3. 3.0 3.1 3.2 Originally Submitted by Natreg Dragon
  4. 4.00 4.01 4.02 4.03 4.04 4.05 4.06 4.07 4.08 4.09 4.10 4.11 4.12 4.13 4.14 4.15 4.16 Originally submitted by Tribun Dragon)
  5. Originally submitted by Hacki Dragon)
  6. 6.0 6.1 6.2 6.3 6.4 6.5 6.6 6.7 6.8 Originally Submitted by Evil_Freak Dragon
  7. 7.0 7.1 Originally Submitted by Dino the Dark Dragon
  8. 8.0 8.1 8.2 Originally Submitted by BlueClaw

External LinksEdit

This article includes material originally taken from Hacki's Ultima Page, and is used with permission.